How do we pump up the energy in here?

[MetroPunk]

any suggestions on how to keep OSI alive? Most people interested in these topics are interacting at GAIA, but i don't think we want to lose OSI as a possible "space" to grow Integral...

who knows, any suggestions?

[Steven Nickeson]

Alan,

First of all I want say that I did not mean to sound jaundiced about Integral Praxis. I agree that it consistently presents well selected, comprehensive, and intelligent material. But who reads it and what do they think about it? Is it reaching anyone effectively or is it just sermons to the choir? In other words I don't see it generating any energy because this material doesn't seem to be coming from any focused energy generator, itself. It reads as something sourced instead from moderate academics and moderate, politically friendly change agents. To me it comes across as fixing the jones for the perpetually alarmed media junkies--they might be junkies but they are still moderate junkies habituated to moderate media.

Moderation does not generate energy.

So based on your write-up I was just confirmed as a communicant on the Integrative Spirituality site. It strikes me as a spiritual vision style that is about 20 years past its "best if sold by:" due date. The fact that no one except yourself has posted anything on the site's forum since the end of July indicates that a lot of other people hold the same opinion. I have to agree that it rates, unfortunately, as a failure.

In closing, you wrote: I predict the Integral Movement / Paradigm will continue to emerge in the blogosphere and the web.

I was saying much the same thing when I pointed out that on the right hand side-bar of Integral Praxis there are links to over 50 integrally related sites, many of them are blogs, and as I said above, this is where the action is. This list has at least doubled since my blog, Integral Liberties, joined it several months ago. (One of my recent favorites on the list is Integral Psychosis, a blog hosted by an anarchist, folk singing, softball fanatic who lives in Vermont, USA, I live in Edo. Miranda, Venezuela, so he and I share not only an A but a V.) I just ran through the list and I find it depressing. This integrally related material uses an almost incestuous, hermetically sealed, vocabulary to put across a vision they share with a group of people I recall from 40 years ago; care givers, social workers, educators, political aspirants, moderates all, who used to chorus "I believe that we can bring the most lasting and meaningful change by working within the system." Now this crowd is preparing for retirement and all the systems that they were to change are failing and bankrupt of solutions. I don't think they collectively had the energy to meet the needs of the system, because, as I said before, moderation does not generate energy.

I think that you and I view the Integral Paradigm and its players from two different, almost polar perspectives. Your point of view appears to be based in the Aurobindo vision while I don't hold with anything other than the fullness of my instincts. Unlike you who recognizes the depth of a spiritual vision and can project that onto the entire I Paradigm, my instincts tell me that it as a well-meaning, but provincial, territory that is generated by a verbal map, an overly annotated taxonomy of too many topics that lacks depth in almost everything except the idiosyncratic vocabulary and narrow ontology on which it stands. This not only applies to Wilber, but Gebser and in many cases the developmentalism advocates on which Wilber and Cohen and McKintosh rely. I think too many people in the Integral Province/Paradigm have misinterpreted the words, "The Middle Way" and in their assumption of that value (I have read where some integralites have called their position "the radical center," or "radical middle" or some such catchy, but oxymoronic, title) they negate radicalism, passion, intensity and all values they see opposed to moderation.

But moderation is just moderation and we all know what it doesn't generate and thus we see why so little happens within the Province except a discussion of theory and the occasional study that has been informed by it. (Note on I-Praxis, the voters on the question of what more kinds of posts they would like to see more of, want by over 50% more discussions of theory...in other words, words about other words that are about other words....)

[Steven Nickeson]

Addendum--Production Note: On almost long posts to forums, etc. I draft the post in Scribefire, Firefox's blog editor, and then copy and paste into the on-site reply box. When I posted above I did not realize that this site did not accept Scribefire's links (though most sites do). So there should be links on the following:
Integral Liberties
Integral Psychosis
fullness of my instincts

[BrightAbyss~]

Again, great comments Steven, but where's the good news? I have rarely ever seen you offer up more than critique. So where would us "integrals" go from here?

Just wondering.

I think what you see with IP's survey is that people want a new way of thinking and talking - or if you perfer Rorty: a new way of 'describing' - their world, one that allows them to deal with complexity and diversity while remaining grounded in the universality of Being (to wax Heideggerian on you). I know of no other philosophy/theory yet offering such a package, do you?

You, Steven, are an educated, post-formal thinker who has shedded the 'need' for such a model, but there are billions who are far being afforded that type of perspective.

I think it does a disservice to people wanting more comprehensive and nuanced learning to just tell them its all just "words" (hence the post-formal, post-linguistic) and so pack up and go home. What we are trying with IP is to provide a delicate balance of theory, science, critique and practical wisdom which may help cultivate a new kind of sensibility - a new kind of intercultural, inter-discursive appreciation for both complexity and universality.

But I think you are right: we are often preaching to the converted, but hopefully - through word of mouth, future changes, and random google searching - we can attract those seeking out 'integral' developments without ever knowing what "Integral" really signifies.

We just started another web-project we hope will reach a whole new demographic with a less explicit, and deeper, integral sentiment. Look for that soon.

And finally, I'm wondering what your thoughts are about the state of our civilization in general? Because if you don't think that crisis-thinking is warranted then you must have a very different take on what's happening all around us than I do. Sincerely.

all the best,

m-

[Steven Nickeson]

Michael,

You wrote: Again, great comments Steven, but where's the good news? I have rarely ever seen you offer up more than critique. So where would us "integrals" go from here?


I have long thought the really good news lay in the potential of the autonomous will of each individual human being...sine qua non.

Where to the integralites go from here? I am not sure, but several items (including your question) have popped up in the last few days and I think I'll address them in my blog, so I might have a better answer for you in a couple of days. Things always take longer however...

cheers,
SN

[BrightAbyss~]

Hey Steven,

Thanks for the thoughts. Mainly, Integral Praxis is group project explicitly focused on three main goals: 1) promoting post-integral, post-formal learning in the domains of ecology, human development and social justice, 2) promoting and cultivating the Integral Subculture as a niche for Holistic Philosophy, transformative practice and integrative approaches, and 3) as an informational source for integrally-informed ChangeWork agents.

As you may know, our group is called The Integral Research Group - IRG - and we're a bunch of 30-something public health, business and social service professionals trying to translate and apply an 'integral' (read holistic, comprehensive, inclusive and critical) sensibility to our everyday work.

The IRG was a mini-project for us to frame our discussions and our learning (research) in this area. We have had enormous personal and professional success using integral approaches, and try to support the evolution of this kind of thinking through small projects and interaction with the wider community of people interested in such ideas/practice.

That's us in a nutshell.

It basically can be summed up by saying we think 'integral' approaches offer the most comprehensive and healthy framework for promoting postive change and long-term sustainability - so we support that.

[BrightAbyss~]

Bottomline for me: I would like to see OSI become a place for rigorous discussion about the Future of Integral - Beyond AQAL. I don't think we need another social forum. OSI can and perhaps should be very narrow in scope: let's talk theory and application.

Maybe OSI can be a Idea-Lab for all kinds of 'Integral', but with a commitment to cultivating an integral worldview as opposed to letting it dissipate before even really getting the chance to clarify and critically examine it's "inner structure"...

Who knows? LOL.

But like I said below: OSI is certainly not going anywhere so use it as you may, and for what you want...

Cheers all!

[Jaguar]

We could do some joint projects like inventing a glossary of new terms to describe our present/future experience.
I find my dreams relevant to the flow of the Muse and Necessities Calling, so perhaps we could encourage more dream sharing. Afterall dreams are deeper/higher than normal consciousness...perhaps we need to invite more of the right-brain into integral in general!
Change the black background to dark dark blue...more restful on the eyes.
The GAIA format is too messy, this place has better structure.
We could see what we can learn from Realitysandwich.com
We could brainstorm new topics together...for example how do we apply integral in a downsizing, disintegrating cultural social period...that is how is integral disintegration done?
Could have some galactic wispy sacred geo graphics in the banner.

[Jaguar]

Whats with the friends function?
An't we already automatically friends just by contributing/viewing here?

[BrightAbyss~]

Nope - people must accept friendship, just like non-cyber life...

[shaman sun]

I honestly think that the best way to get some new energy is to participate, at least somewhat, in collaborative projects. "Open source" projects are characteristically low-budget, collaborative and done as a hobby, which, given enough dedication and collaboration, grows into something greater. The other post in this forum: Open Source Integral Book" might be a good idea to work on. There's also the possibility of creating a wiki-like database. Open source communities offer a variety of tools that will probably help pioneer Web 3.0. If we start to utilize them, we may be able to help the community thrive.

In my opinion it will be more difficult for idea and movements to have set "institutions" or whatnot. Instead, ideas are increasingly becoming shared, updated and evaluated by whole communities. This is "open source" or "creative commons" movements. I say, let's utilize these things, get creative and start a few small-scale projects (For instance, a blogging network that is linked to this site, etc). The more networked, the better. Another good thing about "open sourcing" our efforts is that, if you wanted, you could present a project or a creation and then see if it takes on. For instance, with creating software, open source projects can fully develop it and put it out there. If your program works, then great! It may catch on easier than if there was a formal screening process to get it approved, etc.

So, what say you? Open source, creative commons--collaborative projects?

[BrightAbyss~]

I'm all for collaboration, but have very little time to spare. If people want to take the lead - as OSI is a fully 'open source' network now - the gang at IRG (Integral Praxis folks) are all on board!

[Grey Drane]

It'll be interesting to see how Google Wave can help with collaborative projects. I guess Ning doesn't have a wiki function, but if it were to adopt the Wave protocol, that could serve essentially the same purpose.

'Course that's still a few months off, I guess.

~G